activity-feed - update yet?

Hello, Chris i wanted to know if this "activity-feed" will be updated with a newer level Feed— check out the wowander as well other social network wall, if you need a copy of it let me know i can give you my so u can play and get some ideas so we can make it more better looking…

Hi,

I definitely agree it could really use some focus. Activity feed is something I do see as one of the things where there's a lot of basic improvements that should be made.

Frankly it's very unlikely I'd find any way to fund the development through my company, and I am massively overstretched so unfortunately can't volunteer any coding time on any fun things. It'd need to either be sponsored (that'd probably be to the tune of a few weeks work, so unlikely), or I'd need it to be a key part of a well-funded paid project (unlikely that many funded businesses would want it).

So I'd encourage interested third-party developers to get involved here.

yes i do agree, have you check into few "sponsors" yet ? if not why not contact IBM, as well adobe companies to see if they willing to give you one..

If Adobe or IBM were a Composr user and they needed the functionality to achieve a business goal, getting them to sponsor it would be very easy. However doing a cold call to these kinds of companies and persuading them to hand over ~$6000 for something they don't need would be more challenging, and I doubt I personally have the persuasion skills for it - maybe somebody here can try!
We'd certainly give them some free ongoing publicity in return for the sponsorship.

Otherwise I really would like to encourage more developers to get involved doing fun stuff. Commit access to the github repository is available to anyone who proves interest and is well-behaved  

Chris Graham said

If Adobe or IBM were a Composr user and they needed the functionality to achieve a business goal, getting them to sponsor it would be very easy. However doing a cold call to these kinds of companies and persuading them to hand over ~$6000 for something they don't need would be more challenging, and I doubt I personally have the persuasion skills for it - maybe somebody here can try!
We'd certainly give them some free ongoing publicity in return for the sponsorship.

Otherwise I really would like to encourage more developers to get involved doing fun stuff. Commit access to the github repository is available to anyone who proves interest and is well-behaved  

From “Post #3,205”, 24th September 2017, 4:59 pm

there as to be some company that can use this.. why not rethink on the layout as well make it bootstrap, that or make it like "subrion.org" if u look at there themes, as well there one plugin, as well make it social / forums / shopping all into one as well mobile off that, it can do a lot better i know you do work hard, and i really do like to use this as i can, how ever theres is a lot of ideas i have but i know i would have to throw in cash witch is okay i guess, and willing but if i do, i can also contact few ppl here in USA as well there in UK as i know a lot that is looking for sponsor what needs to be done is make it a lot smoother as well make it more look and feel for get the plugin system that was added, time to upgrade the cms into something better, new plugin system that autos download into the script awell make it use more themes with nice icons, as for social network plugin that is using ajax, and node.js as well WEBrtc with dating plugin add-on with mobile app builder without having to code (dear god lol ) but if we can do this am willing to help code this time and throw ppl to help and as well help pay as i can


think on it and PM me on what u like to do .. try to hide this post as well if u like

Hi John,

I'll try and respond to all of this, there are lots of important things for all of us to think about here, obviously going way beyond the Activity Addon .

"why not rethink on the layout as well make it bootstrap"

The way we're going is to have a much more configurable default theme for v11. There'll be a much wider set of theme options for changing all kinds of things, so the typical user won't necessarily feel they need to touch CSS editing to make the site look unique. As for Bootstrap, it is problematic to say the least, due to these issues:

1. Moves CSS out into CSS preprocessors, raising processing complexity significantly. This adds a lot of complexity and means standard tooling no longer works. For example, we couldn't provide an interactive CSS editor without the server having a fully working compiler on it, and we'd need to recompile the CSS every time a little edit was made.
2. Imposition of unusual coding method. Bootstrap uses a grid layout, which is opposed to the normal 'semantic' way of coding CSS. So it means completely replacing the way all the current templates are laid out to a new style that is grid-orientated. That'd be a big time investment, that arguably reduces the quality of the code.
3. Volatility. We did a client project on Bootstrap and it was using LESS for CSS, and now I believe it uses SASS. That means if we are to upgrade it, the CSS needs completely overhauling, as well as the integrated toolchain we made for it. Bootstrap's style of grid layouts is also likely to change (for example, flexbox layout is very likely to gain popularity). Just maintaining Bootstrap would be a major time investment. Like $10k per year kind of level of investment, only for Bootstrap.
4. Complexity for users. The complexity of editing the styles goes up significantly once Bootstrap is implemented. Not only because the code gets more complex due to the extra framework, but also because they need to learn the CSS preprocessor (SASS).

I've mostly come to terms with the realization that frontend coding is now it's own career path for people, i.e. you get someone who's entire career is coding CSS, with no backend coding at all, and no actual graphic design. And that means that the chance of a regular Composr user being able to keep up, casually making their own CSS edits, is increasingly low. But to make such an enormous initial and ongoing investment, knowing it's also going to put CSS editing immediately out of the reach of even the most intelligent casual Composr user, is something I really don't think we can do right now. I think for this to become the official way of doing things, the dust really has to settle to minimize the chances of having to completely recreate it every few years, and we need the theme to be so configurable that the average user won't want to edit it (as I mentioned this is our current focus, but based on our existing default theme).

That might seem a bit overly-cautious, but we really dodged a bullet regarding jQuery. Everyone switched to jQuery except us, basically - and then JavaScript itself got better, and the trend is to not even use jQuery for new projects because of all the added complexity and messiness that comes with using it. Yet all these projects have fully invested in it, and it's weaved deep into their code. When v11 comes out, it will be having a much better post-jQuery approach to JavaScript.

All that said, there's nothing stopping people creating and distributing their own Bootstrap-based themes for Composr, either free or paid. Other people don't have the same long-term planning constraints that we have, and are more free to innovate with exciting things that may be short lived, but worth it to them and others.

"subrion.org if u look at there themes"

I really want to encourage people to make and release their own themes.
It shouldn't fall on the core developers to be responsible for making all the cool themes anyone might want, we really need more people to step in here. There's so much written about themeing in the tutorial library, and so many video tutorials, there's a world of possibility and help awaiting those who want to go into it.

"as well there one plugin, as well make it social / forums / shopping all into one as well mobile off that"

I'm not sure what "one plugin" is, but we have social media, forums, and shopping, and mobile support, in Composr already. Mobile support is getting a lot better in v11, with proper responsive design acrosss the entire system in addition to the current mobile/desktop mode paradigm.

"i would have to throw in cash"

If all the ideas listed here were properly realized by normal salaried developers we're honestly talking 6-figure, possibly 7-figure, investment. In silicon valley the typical new startup gets like $8 million just to get going, and that sets the benchmark for all of us now. I doubt throwing in money is sustainable in the long term, unless we encourage 1000s of people to thrown in money together.
I'm really trying to change how Composr is developed in 2018, clearly the world is incredibly different to when we started out in 2004, and my or my company's shoulders definitely aren't broad enough to take on the kind of ideas people have alone (or with a few others) - it needs to be a much bigger effort.
Given we're not likely to attract 1000s of regular feature sponsors over night (to be blunt, I only attracted a couple of people to sponsor me on Patreon after many months of trying to drum that up), and given that trying to get VC-investment into Composr would destroy what we have here (they'd want to cripple the product and try and get every user paying per-seat), I think encouraging more developers is the only solution - just like other projects like Drupal or Joomla do. I haven't really announced this (although I have discussed it a bit), I want to completely firewall my company's commercial operations from the development of Composr, and the compo.sr website would be 100% a community, with no commercial-arm being involved whatsoever. Nowadays my company makes its money of clients who pay us 5-figure amounts every year (which almost all has to go into salary, but leads to unpredictable but cool new features that are then added into Composr). Our current business model is definitely not the regular-user-funded-development model that I designed for originally, because as I mentioned, the world is a totally different place now.

I will answer technical questions, provide whatever access is needed, provide advice, keep tuning things (if you see my git commits I am constantly doing that, just based off little conversations I have with a diverse group of people), provide actual resources (like paying for basic hosting costs) - but what I can't provide is actual development time and taking responsibility for all the development, because the aggregate amount of work to fulfil the basic passions in feature direction is the work of like 10,000 man hours a year.

"i can also contact few ppl here in USA as well there in UK as i know a lot that is looking for sponsor"

That would be very welcome .
If some how we did get $150,000 in direct sponsorship in 2018, I'd be planning things very differently. I'm skeptical whether that could happen, but if it can, certainly I would work full time (with others) on just coding Composr, prioritizing whatever feature ideas are most upvoted, that's where my passion has always been. But again, I'm really skeptical, I think in reality with 2 weeks work someone might find sponsorship for 1 week of development and only if they're incredibly persuasive. I'm very willing to be proven wrong though!

"new plugin system that autos download into the script"

Automatic addon download and installation is already a feature. I think our UI for it really could use an overhaul though.

"awell make it use more themes with nice icons"

Yes, definitely.

"for social network plugin that is using ajax, and node.js as well WEBrtc"

To use WebRTC would mean users would need their own dedicated servers, or we'd need to create our own server farm to run it on behalf of the users.
node.js also is not going to run on the kind of shared hosting the average Composr user has.

So I doubt these things would directly happen, because they don't align with the facilities the typical user has available to them.

The chat tutorial does discuss at least one third-party option for video/audio chat, that can be integrated relatively easily by someone with junior level coding skills.

"dating plugin"

Definitely something a third party would need to take responsibility for, I don't think core developers should be spending time on something that specific. But that's what addons are for!

"mobile app builder without having to code (dear god lol "

We're definitely talking 7-figures, i.e. someone would need to invest something like $5 million, and we'd need to go on a hiring spree, and it would definitely need to be an expensive paid solution for the investors to get their money back. Or, third-party enthusiastic developers could get involved. We already have Composr Mobile SDK.

I hate to pour water on things, but I don't want to give false impressions, a lot of this is incredibly expensive stuff. That's why we need to be decentralized about it.

Chris Graham said

Hi John,

I'll try and respond to all of this, there are lots of important things for all of us to think about here, obviously going way beyond the Activity Addon .

"why not rethink on the layout as well make it bootstrap"

The way we're going is to have a much more configurable default theme for v11. There'll be a much wider set of theme options for changing all kinds of things, so the typical user won't necessarily feel they need to touch CSS editing to make the site look unique. As for Bootstrap, it is problematic to say the least, due to these issues:

1. Moves CSS out into CSS preprocessors, raising processing complexity significantly. This adds a lot of complexity and means standard tooling no longer works. For example, we couldn't provide an interactive CSS editor without the server having a fully working compiler on it, and we'd need to recompile the CSS every time a little edit was made.
2. Imposition of unusual coding method. Bootstrap uses a grid layout, which is opposed to the normal 'semantic' way of coding CSS. So it means completely replacing the way all the current templates are laid out to a new style that is grid-orientated. That'd be a big time investment, that arguably reduces the quality of the code.
3. Volatility. We did a client project on Bootstrap and it was using LESS for CSS, and now I believe it uses SASS. That means if we are to upgrade it, the CSS needs completely overhauling, as well as the integrated toolchain we made for it. Bootstrap's style of grid layouts is also likely to change (for example, flexbox layout is very likely to gain popularity). Just maintaining Bootstrap would be a major time investment. Like $10k per year kind of level of investment, only for Bootstrap.
4. Complexity for users. The complexity of editing the styles goes up significantly once Bootstrap is implemented. Not only because the code gets more complex due to the extra framework, but also because they need to learn the CSS preprocessor (SASS).

I've mostly come to terms with the realization that frontend coding is now it's own career path for people, i.e. you get someone who's entire career is coding CSS, with no backend coding at all, and no actual graphic design. And that means that the chance of a regular Composr user being able to keep up, casually making their own CSS edits, is increasingly low. But to make such an enormous initial and ongoing investment, knowing it's also going to put CSS editing immediately out of the reach of even the most intelligent casual Composr user, is something I really don't think we can do right now. I think for this to become the official way of doing things, the dust really has to settle to minimize the chances of having to completely recreate it every few years, and we need the theme to be so configurable that the average user won't want to edit it (as I mentioned this is our current focus, but based on our existing default theme).

That might seem a bit overly-cautious, but we really dodged a bullet regarding jQuery. Everyone switched to jQuery except us, basically - and then JavaScript itself got better, and the trend is to not even use jQuery for new projects because of all the added complexity and messiness that comes with using it. Yet all these projects have fully invested in it, and it's weaved deep into their code. When v11 comes out, it will be having a much better post-jQuery approach to JavaScript.

All that said, there's nothing stopping people creating and distributing their own Bootstrap-based themes for Composr, either free or paid. Other people don't have the same long-term planning constraints that we have, and are more free to innovate with exciting things that may be short lived, but worth it to them and others.

"subrion.org if u look at there themes"

I really want to encourage people to make and release their own themes.
It shouldn't fall on the core developers to be responsible for making all the cool themes anyone might want, we really need more people to step in here. There's so much written about themeing in the tutorial library, and so many video tutorials, there's a world of possibility and help awaiting those who want to go into it.

"as well there one plugin, as well make it social / forums / shopping all into one as well mobile off that"

I'm not sure what "one plugin" is, but we have social media, forums, and shopping, and mobile support, in Composr already. Mobile support is getting a lot better in v11, with proper responsive design acrosss the entire system in addition to the current mobile/desktop mode paradigm.

"i would have to throw in cash"

If all the ideas listed here were properly realized by normal salaried developers we're honestly talking 6-figure, possibly 7-figure, investment. In silicon valley the typical new startup gets like $8 million just to get going, and that sets the benchmark for all of us now. I doubt throwing in money is sustainable in the long term, unless we encourage 1000s of people to thrown in money together.
I'm really trying to change how Composr is developed in 2018, clearly the world is incredibly different to when we started out in 2004, and my or my company's shoulders definitely aren't broad enough to take on the kind of ideas people have alone (or with a few others) - it needs to be a much bigger effort.
Given we're not likely to attract 1000s of regular feature sponsors over night (to be blunt, I only attracted a couple of people to sponsor me on Patreon after many months of trying to drum that up), and given that trying to get VC-investment into Composr would destroy what we have here (they'd want to cripple the product and try and get every user paying per-seat), I think encouraging more developers is the only solution - just like other projects like Drupal or Joomla do. I haven't really announced this (although I have discussed it a bit), I want to completely firewall my company's commercial operations from the development of Composr, and the compo.sr website would be 100% a community, with no commercial-arm being involved whatsoever. Nowadays my company makes its money of clients who pay us 5-figure amounts every year (which almost all has to go into salary, but leads to unpredictable but cool new features that are then added into Composr). Our current business model is definitely not the regular-user-funded-development model that I designed for originally, because as I mentioned, the world is a totally different place now.

I will answer technical questions, provide whatever access is needed, provide advice, keep tuning things (if you see my git commits I am constantly doing that, just based off little conversations I have with a diverse group of people), provide actual resources (like paying for basic hosting costs) - but what I can't provide is actual development time and taking responsibility for all the development, because the aggregate amount of work to fulfil the basic passions in feature direction is the work of like 10,000 man hours a year.

"i can also contact few ppl here in USA as well there in UK as i know a lot that is looking for sponsor"

That would be very welcome .
If some how we did get $150,000 in direct sponsorship in 2018, I'd be planning things very differently. I'm skeptical whether that could happen, but if it can, certainly I would work full time (with others) on just coding Composr, prioritizing whatever feature ideas are most upvoted, that's where my passion has always been. But again, I'm really skeptical, I think in reality with 2 weeks work someone might find sponsorship for 1 week of development and only if they're incredibly persuasive. I'm very willing to be proven wrong though!

"new plugin system that autos download into the script"

Automatic addon download and installation is already a feature. I think our UI for it really could use an overhaul though.

"awell make it use more themes with nice icons"

Yes, definitely.

"for social network plugin that is using ajax, and node.js as well WEBrtc"

To use WebRTC would mean users would need their own dedicated servers, or we'd need to create our own server farm to run it on behalf of the users.
node.js also is not going to run on the kind of shared hosting the average Composr user has.

So I doubt these things would directly happen, because they don't align with the facilities the typical user has available to them.

The chat tutorial does discuss at least one third-party option for video/audio chat, that can be integrated relatively easily by someone with junior level coding skills.

"dating plugin"

Definitely something a third party would need to take responsibility for, I don't think core developers should be spending time on something that specific. But that's what addons are for!

"mobile app builder without having to code (dear god lol "

We're definitely talking 7-figures, i.e. someone would need to invest something like $5 million, and we'd need to go on a hiring spree, and it would definitely need to be an expensive paid solution for the investors to get their money back. Or, third-party enthusiastic developers could get involved. We already have Composr Mobile SDK.

I hate to pour water on things, but I don't want to give false impressions, a lot of this is incredibly expensive stuff. That's why we need to be decentralized about it.

From “Post #3,237”, 29th September 2017, 8:27 pm

yes true on what you said, but just giving you few things to check into on your own free time
i will contact my guys as well there friends to see what they can do to get your name out there as well get a few in AU that needs someone to sponsor you soon…

and again keep up with the great work bro